I have been asked a few times this past week if I support Southern Methodist University as the location for the George W. Bush Presidential Library. My answer is, YES. Most arguments against it stem from the disagreement with presidential politics and the current war efforts. Most arguments paint a fairly negative picture of our President. Do I agree with all of his decisions? Not hardly. However, that is true for every president. Surely the views of protestors are not so myopic they believe other Presidents were better or worse.
Clinton –Moving Prisoners to other countries for torture and interrogation and don’t forget the sexual affair in the oval office.
George H.W. Bush – Huge national debt and remember, “No New Taxes!”
Reagan - Iran-Contra Affair.
Carter – Disastrous economy and weak, appeasement-oriented foreign policy.
Ford – Pardoned Nixon and could not keep US out of economic recession.
Nixon –Involved in so many wars I can’t waste the time and Watergate Scandal.
Johnson – Vietnam.
Kennedy – Bay of Pigs.
This does not even begin to scratch the surface in regards to all the good they did, not just for the people of the United States, but for people around the world. Why do I know they all did a pretty good job? We are still free. We are still the United States of America. We are still the one place everyone wants to live, work and raise a family.
Why wouldn’t I want the Presidential Library at SMU? It would draw thousands of people to a great Methodist University. It would generate revenue for a university that could be used to do more good in the world. It would bring more notoriety to Methodism and it will be a historic event for the denomination. Many people are screaming this would muddy the waters between the separation of church and state. The reality is they have no idea what that really means but it sounds good; like offering your brother-in-Law legal advice to get out of a speeding ticket.
If the people protesting the library and presidential politics spent half as much time proclaiming the gospel we wouldn't really need to worry about any of this. To sum up my thoughts I will coin a phrase from the South: “Let’s don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.”
Pastor Matt
Thursday, May 22, 2008
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Torture Is Not a Methodist Family Value
Posted on Friday, May 9, 2008 by wallwritings
Guest Column by Andrew Weaver
Editor’s Note: Andrew Weaver is a good friend of mine and a close observer of the United Methodist Church. I asked him to write the first guest column for this blog. Andrew is a United Methodist minister and research psychologist living in New York City. He is a graduate of The Perkins School of Theology, SMU.
On April 8, Southern Methodist University President R. Gerald Turner sent a letter to all the delegates of the South Central Jurisdictional Conference (SCJ) of the United Methodist Church (UMC). Turner wanted to persuade the delegates to support the proposed Bush library and partisan think-tank at the SMU Dallas campus.
Three days later, George W. Bush, who is to be honored by the Bush library, acknowledged that he has been deeply involved in the details of the torture he has authorized.
An ABC News report indicated: “President Bush says he knew his top national security advisers discussed and approved specific details about how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency.” According to White House sources, the discussions about torture techniques were so detailed that some of the “interrogation sessions were almost choreographed”.
Earlier, on March 8, Bush vetoed legislation that would have banned water boarding and other methods of torture by government employees. The legislation would have limited CIA agents to 19 less-aggressive tactics outlined in the U.S. Army field manual. The president stated that the government “needs to use tougher methods than the U.S. military to wrest information from terrorism suspects”.
Water boarding has a long and sickening history. It was used as a means of torture and coerced baptism during the Protestant Reformation. During the Spanish Inquisition the Catholic Church used the torture to convert Jews, Mennonites, witches, and other suspected heretics.
It is a brutal and horrifying method in which the torturer immobilizes the victim on his or her back. The head is tilted downward. Water is poured over the face forcing the inhalation of water into the lungs. As the victim gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive.
In the supposedly “less enlightened” 18th century, the Methodist Church founder, John Wesley, explicitly spoke strongly against any torture of prisoners of war.
For Wesley, war is justifiable only on the principle of self-preservation: Prisoners of war are confined for the purpose of preventing them from harming their captors. A war of self-preservation does not give a nation the right to torture, or kill, or to enslave an enemy when the war is over.
United Methodist Bishop Scott J. Jones of Kansas, a SMU trustee, describes Bush as a “faithful member” of the United Methodist Church. The Rev. Mark Craig, an SMU trustee and senior minister of the Highland Park Church in Dallas dismissed opponents of the library and think tank as a “fringe group, a marginal group without any standing other than the fact they happen to be one of 8 million United Methodists”. The Bush family are members of the Highland Park Church.
President Bush refers to himself a “proud Methodist”, but he has shown little sign of contrition, regret or repentance for his personal behavior which violates Methodist standards set long ago by John Wesley. Instead, Bush attempts to justify himself and place a shield of protection around government officials who use torture.
The half billion dollar partisan think-tank to honor President Bush on the SMU campus is essentially being planned (the Dallas Morning News calls it “advising”) by former Bush political guru Karl Rove. Neither SMU nor the United Methodist Church will have any control over the direction of the program or the people they hire. Consider the implications: Scooter Libby as distinguished Chair of political ethics?
This absence of university control was made clear in 2005 when, according to a New York Times story:
In outlining the project to prospective universities in 2005, two officers of the foundation, Marvin P. Bush, a brother of the president, and Donald J. Evans, said the institute would be answerable to the foundation, not the university. And they said: “Part of its mission will be to further the domestic and international goals of the Bush administration,” including “compassionate conservatism” and “defeating terrorism.”
The South Central Jurisdictional Conference of the United Methodist Church will meet July 15-19, to debate and then vote on whether to approve the construction of the Bush Library and think tank. There will be 290 United Methodist clergy and laity delegates to that conference representing 1.83 million United Methodist church members from Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas and Louisiana. These delegates are the ultimate authority over the use of the land where the new project is scheduled to be built.
A significant majority of these delegates are progressives and moderates who have the power to say no to the construction of the library and the think tank honoring Bush. To encourage delegates to consider a no vote, you may go to here and sign a petition protesting the Bush library on SMU’s campus.
Matt you hit the nail on the head with this one. That is exactly what I was thinking this morning when I heard it on the news. Take that energy to protest and go to a homeless shelter or nursing home.
Jobby
Dear "Anonymous" -
First - Why do you hide in secrecy behind a cloaked identity. Why do you not want to identify yourself with your beliefs? While I disagree with you, I still respect your right to believe it and have great respect for your willingness to voice it.
Secondly - It is obvious you have never served in any military or paramilitary capacity to protect people and their rights and freedoms. Sadly, there are those who will do anything to destroy others. Have you ever had anyone want to kill you? I have and it is not really a time for calm reasoning, rationale, and debate. Evil does not exist in just terrorists or people from other countries but also some people living in your own city. If you were ever drafted into military service it would be interesting to watch you live out your current beliefs.
Unfortunately, to deter and combat such forces of evil you have to play at their level. For some odd reason, just simply asking nicely and explaining the doctrine of peace and justice within the United Methodist Church doesn't seem to make much difference to them. I support the doctrine but some want to destroy us for that belief as well.
While you enjoy the national freedom provided to you by those in all sorts of uniforms under the flag of the United States; I suggest you let them do their job the way they best know how.
As Christians, we should pray for the eternal freedom for all people, even our enemies, that one day they will be accountable to Jesus and not condemned by him. However, while we pray for all people I am not willing to sit back and let them invade our homes or kill our families simply because the functions of fighting evil are tragic to all involved.
Pastor Matt
My apologies for my passionate wording previously. I could have deleted both entries but I think it is vitally important that we do not ignore one another and the greater issues. I do not apologize for seeking the more difficult answers. It might help to say I think it is high time our efforts in the current war be over. Not because of politics but because of effectiveness. However, debating that, or other politics, is not why I began this forum of communication.
I certainly agree with the statement by "anonymous" that "Water boarding has a long and sickening history." Whatever place it has in history, especially if in the church, is horrific. I pray a more effective way to gather intelligence to protect our world is found.
I admit I certainly have no "answer" to the current issues engulfing our world. Yes, Jesus Christ is the answer and as Pastor Don in our church states, "The minute we all remember and treat each other as human beings the world will change.” Again, how do I do that and at the same time not let some who disagrees with me to blow up my city and kill other innocent people?
I believe the biblical model of living under the authority and law of the land is to do so lawfully and by the standards of Christ while effectively influencing change. Even in the United Methodist church we have legislation that not everyone United Methodist agrees with, but we do not abandon the church, disregard its effectiveness, and promote anarchy among its leaders. We seek to promote positive change and live within it. I will say it again, “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.”
Pastor Matt
anonymous... I agree with most of what you re-posted form Andrew Weaver - - - but...
If everything in this current conflict happened like it did back in the first (Desert Storm) then no one would be complaining. The enemy would be defeated, our troops would be home and President Bush would look like a hero...
Unfortunately, this enemy really wants to fight - and not by typical means. This enemy has no problem killing innocent people (American or not) to advance their beliefs. This enemy will not go away if we ask nice. This enemy wants to destroy us. If we turn tail and leave them to restore law and order, this enemy gets bigger and becomes a bigger threat to US.
While I disagree with the way this conflict has been handled (from a military perspective) I fully support our presence - our military is designed to sit back and launch guided munitions at our opponent and beat them into submission- not walk on foot patrols through some unknown city seeking insurgent instigators - being picked off by sniper fire and IED's in the process.
Lets not forget that Irag has been an active war zone for the last 17 years. We (the US military and our coalition partners) simply sat on the side lines waiting for Saddam Hussein to comply with the United Nations. Clinton simply didn't have the b@!!$ to lead the charge in response the Husseins defiance. President Bush on the other hand did something about it...and now that it has taken longer than we collectively like, the voice of the opposition is heard louder and stronger than those of us who understand why we are there.
As a Christian, I pray everyday for the welfare and safe return of all military members serving over seas , for the preservation of innocent life and for the day when true peace is obtained. Until then, I'm thankful to those serving to protect my family and I, and I'm honored and proud to have been one of them during Desert Storm.
To address your "water boarding" concerns - yes torture in any form is brutal, but until the recipient freely divulges the information we need, I understand it. Like it or not, any military will seek to detain an enemy combatant for the purposes of information - thats how the "game" is played. If we simply captured them and put them up in the Hilton until the "game" was over, it would take too long. No one wants to play this "game" any longer then absolutely necessary.
Regards
Matt--In your comment, you stated "Unfortunately, to deter and combat such forces of evil you have to play at their level. For some odd reason, just simply asking nicely and explaining the doctrine of peace and justice within the United Methodist Church doesn't seem to make much difference to them. I support the doctrine but some want to destroy us for that belief as well.
While you enjoy the national freedom provided to you by those in all sorts of uniforms under the flag of the United States; I suggest you let them do their job the way they best know how."
I'm not in the military, but I come from a military family, so,this subject strikes close to home. The kind of relativism found in your comments moves us dangerously close to situational ethics. Where is the line you're not supposed to cross? How cold is too cold in subjecting detainees to extreme temperature? Do they have to hold their arms up for long periods of time or are we making them do squats for hours on end? If you change the angle, is waterboarding okay? There have been many generals and other military officials (including John McCain) who have stated/testified again and again that there are other more effective interrogation techniques than the torture techniques like waterboarding, extreme temperatures, etc, that the Bush administration approved (and just to clarify, I voted for Bush twice).
The apostle Paul says in Romans 3:
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just."
And Exodus 23 says: Don't go along with the crowd in doing evil..."
And (I love this...) Proberbs 16 says " When God approves of your life, even your enemies will end up shaking your hand."
For a Christian, the ends do not justify the means. And I do believe that our actions of injustice at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay have hindered us greatly in our campaign to win the "hearts and minds of the Iraqui people" and have empowered those who are trying to recruit young Muslims to carry on their terroist acts against us. I realize we're dealing with savagery, as in the Daniel Pearl murder. But we can't justify our misdeeds and sins by pointing to them and saying "they're worse".
As for the Bush library, I think it should be at a larger public university just for the reason that more people have access to it.
George HW Bush's library is at my alma mater and has created a wonderful public service/international relations degree program that works in conjunction with the University.
Repectfully,
Melissa Crawford
Thanks so much for the discussion this week! I really appreciate it the input and feedback.
Again, let me emphatically state that we need to find a better way of gathering intelligence. I am not advocating "water boarding" as the method of choice and I agree that "situational ethics" is borderline sinful.
As I stated earlier, I have no real answer but it is a debate that must be continued until we find better and more effective avenues of protecting our rights and freedoms inside and outside the boarders of the United States.
Matt
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